On this episode, we have Emily Kund who is a digital marketing mentor. And honestly, she is the data Queen Emily and I met last year at our fast foundation’s mastermind with Chris and Laurie harder, and we instantly connected. Emily, like me, made a crazy transition and pivot from corporate life. Emily was a bank examiner for 15 years. In this episode, we talk all about her transition from being a bank examiner for 15 years to owning her own business and being an entrepreneur. We talk a lot about the power of pivoting even once you’ve started a business and you think you know what that business is going to be all about pivoting when it’s not profitable and fulfilling anymore. And we also talk about the power of quizzes and data and how you can use them effectively to help your business be more profitable.
Emily is a certified consultant with interact quiz maker Tableau ambassador, a co-host for the tableau want to be a podcast, a data visualization instructor, and a tech coach for the net worth at school. She helps coaches to attract their ideal clients to create the income and the impact they deserve.
Emily is a mom, and she is also married to an indie Comic Book Creator. She is a coffee lover and a book lover, and she is one of the smartest, most genuine women that I have ever met. I’m so excited for you to get to experience Emma’s genius, and by the end of this podcast episode, you’re going to want to create a quiz as the new lead magnet for your business. I hope you guys enjoy it. Have a great day.
REGINA: So, for the listeners who are listening to the podcast today, how did you go from being a bank examiner to being a digital marketing mentor? It feels like such a jump.
EMILY: You know what? For a lot of people, it would be a jump. So like I had been a bank examiner as you know, for like 19 years. And I was at this place where my work environment started to feel toxic to me. And I knew that I was going to have to rotate out of the position I was currently in. And so I knew just because of how I work as a human. Like, I want to be in leadership, I wanted to be a formal leader in that organization, which meant I was going to need to either travel a lot more or have a sucky commute. So my commute was already a round trip of three hours. It was going to be at least that, and I stepped back and said, like, really thought to myself, I remember being in my office going, there has got to be more than this. I mean, the big thing that happened to kind of my aha moment, my awakening, if you will, is, I was finally able to go to my son’s Little League game one Saturday because Little League is in the spring. That’s that was a high travel season for me. So I was frequently out of town or preparing the house stuff because I’d be out of town. So I was really never at his games.
So the one Saturday I was there, I was so excited. I was by the dugout, trying to chit-chat with the moms. And I mean, I’ll never forget it. Because one of the moms asked me, “Do you? Do you have a kid in this game?” And I had two thoughts. The first was like, Yeah, because like, do I just look like some Brando that just shows up to literally games? It was the first thought, the second one. It felt like a punch to my gut. It hurt. Because they don’t even know that I’m Alex’s mom. And my daughter was having trouble with me being away. So she was older, she was like seven years old, she was going through some separation anxiety. And when I came to this conclusion that I was either gonna have to travel more or have a worse commute. I was like; there’s got to be more than life than this.
That’s when I took a reflection and said, well, what really are my values? And what am I acting in alignment with those values? I’m very; I would call it operational, but logical. So what are my values? And if I say that family is a big value as a primary value of mine, am I doing the things needed? Am I acting in alignment with that value? I was really acting in alignment up until that point because I didn’t realize that it was having an adverse effect on my family. I was acting in alignment with a career as a primary value in that family. So when I reflected on that, it was also around the time where I loved books. I had read LIVE IT!: by Jairek Robbins, and it changed my life. I love that book. It’s the one I always recommend because he goes through this process of kind of rolling through what your ideal day looks like. And when I rolled through what my ideal day looked like, it was not working in the public sector. It was not rushing; it was waking up naturally. Being able to walk the kids to school, being able to work out and prepare for speaking and helping others.
Those two things kind of came together, and I talked to my husband, and I said, listen, the work situation was a perfect storm of that nudge I needed that I didn’t know. Because I had friends outside of the agency that would say, “you’ll probably leave your job in like three years,” And I’m like, “I doubt it. Like I feel like I’m a lifer”. And I truly did believe that. But that toxic environment gave me the nudge because I think I would have just otherwise carried on. That gave me the nudge to ask myself the question, really reflect, and then make the change.
REGINA: How long after you asked yourself that question and of that realization at your son’s game did you make the shift and leave the job?
EMILY: It felt like that part where I was still sleepy but starting to wake up. I felt so bad. I know I’m not the smartest person on the planet. But I felt like I couldn’t do anything. I knew I was being given a rope to hang myself; I doubted my abilities. I didn’t have allies at work. So it’s just all of that. So after I had that reflection, it was only a month or two after that, that I had made the decision. What we started doing was, we transferred insurance over like, did all the behind scenes, things that you need to do. Just because of how I want to show up as a person and as a good employee, I was still engaged at work. I was still producing. I gave them six weeks’ notice, which is unheard of. Because I wanted them to have time to be able to fill my position because I knew how important it was. So and then I was gone the following June.
REGINA: When you left the following June, had you already started your business as an
EMILY: No. Well, we try not to have any regrets. But if I look back, this was one thing that if I were to do it all over again, I think I would have put more energy into figuring out what I wanted to do. Testing it out and getting some clients because really what happened is I projected my burn rate, my expenses, beautifully, I hit those numbers perfectly. But here’s what happened. Because I knew I needed to get out. And honestly, I was doing so much at work. It was consuming because I wanted to make sure that my record when I left was pristine. If in case I ever wanted to come back, or whatever. So I didn’t have a ton of time outside of work to really start building a business. I wish I had though, because when I left, my idea was, “Hey, I have actually over 20 years of experience in banking 19 as a regulator; I’d worked at a bank in almost all levels from a staff perspective”. So I have that. And I also, at the same time, have some data visualization experience. I have marketable skills; I’m just going to go out and be a data visualization consultant for banks.
It was summer break thinking this is the best thing ever. What happened was that I did not feel the spark to get leads to talk to banks, but it just wasn’t exciting for me. So, therefore, I wasn’t doing the work. And because I wasn’t doing the work to get the leads, that meant the income projections were way off. So I wish I would have started earlier because I could have gone through that clarifying process a lot earlier, and then I would have been ahead. But you know, that is part of my journey. That’s just not how it happened.
REGINA: If you were going to talk to an entrepreneur who wants to start their business and is wanting to leave their full-time job, what’s some advice that you would give them before they make that jump out of the full-time salary job?
EMILY: I think this is very practical advice. The first thing is to reduce your debt or eliminate your debt. So that was something that I did, and it felt good because I knew I didn’t need to make $200,000. I just needed to cover living expenses because I didn’t have to cover a credit card or debt expenses. So if you can do that, that’s great. I have this belief that when we don’t feel like we don’t have to chase the money, then it helps us make good decisions. So that’s one reason why I say that. Because it’s a lot, it feels a lot more doable. If you only need to make $12,000 a year, or 20,000 versus 160. Yeah, you know, so that’s one thing. The second is, upon starting your business, do the market research. Because when I started my business, I identified that bank data visualization. Consulting is not my jam. Consulting? Not my jam. Then I thought about this idea. I had three years before coaching analytics, where I provide data services to online coaches. The value that I see? It’s really hard for some online coaches to understand why that’s necessary for their business. And at that time, and even now, it’s doesn’t feel like a must-have service. It’s more like, this is nice to have, or if I want to scale from like, six to seven figures. That’s when you’ll look more at in-depth analytics and dashboarding. But a lot of coaches aren’t there yet.
So giving yourself that time to do the market research to see if what you want to do is even feasible. Data services for entrepreneurs or online coaches who I want to serve. It is not feasible, and that’s okay. That gives me the permission to then pivot to figure out how I can provide a service to entrepreneurs where it feels good for me and meets their needs. That’s how I pivoted into quizlets.
REGINA: It’s interesting; you just talked about the pivots that have happened in your business. I know for myself; I’ve pivoted so many times, I’ve even pivot in the niche that I’m in, two different things are deeper down in the niche. Give a little bit of advice on how to pivot why you pivoted because I think people get locked into an idea that I want to do this particular thing. And it’s not working, but they’re worried about pivoting.
EMILY: I think some of its mindset. Like, when I teach people data visualization, like “I have a stream of income,” that is data visualization instruction, like teaching people how to do charts and graphs. So when they show me their chart and graph for the first time, they would say, “I’m sorry, this isn’t really good; it’s my first time…” I’m like, No, we don’t apologize. This is version one. This is iteration one; we will always be iterating. I bring that up because entrepreneurs are doing this all the time. We’re always iterating; we’re always doing that version one, version 1.1, version two. And that is perfectly fine. It’s us figuring out how we can meet our needs and our client’s needs. And when it comes to figuring out even within your niche, change the “I help” statement. Because I went from “I help entrepreneurs, to I help online coaches.” It’s a little scary every time you do it, and we hear other people preaching, “This where the riches are. In the niches,” and being very clear on who you’re talking to. And if you’re talking to the broad, it’s really hard for that person you really want to help hear that message. So it’s scary to make that change. But it also makes things so much clearer. It makes things so much easier.
We have a mutual friend, Natalie. I had a session with her one time, and she said something to me that really shifted how I felt. And that was “there are no wrong decisions.” I forgot exactly what she said but what I took away from it was “there are no wrong decisions.” Everything is happening just as it should. And that gave me such peace because I was like, Okay, that data visualization consulting thing that I thought I was gonna do that I had all this background in, that wasn’t a wrong decision. That was helping me get to this point. So that was massively important for me because it gave me that permission to go. These pivots are perfectly fine. This decision-making is perfectly fine.
REGINA: That’s something I’ve really adopted in all areas of my life. There are no wrong decisions. There’s always a lesson but especially in my business and in the niching. And the pivoting, it’s something that’s coming up constantly in coaching and with people, I’m working with. That’s the thing that is the hardest for them. When I started my business, I remember niching down was like, “Oh no, is it too specific?” Like, if people don’t know, am I gonna have any clients?
EMILY: Yeah, and I think sometimes, I think some of that is also related to the messaging we hear about niching. There are some people who need to know the color of her hair, the color of her eyes. And I mean, personally, I might not be that well enlightened about that. But I don’t know that you need to know the color of her eyes and her hair color. I think if we’re thinking about it, I can only serve blue eye, red hair, freckled. Amazon goddesses, right? We can’t think of all of those people. I don’t even know how many of those individuals are out there that I just described. So I understand the fear. But I think if we start thinking about (and I see this with network marketers), “I just want to help everybody.” Yeah, but if you can name your people a name, that would really clarify your message and how you connect with somebody. You can’t help all these people and talk to everybody; it just makes it really hard to connect with those individuals you really want to serve.
REGINA: Totally, it’s so funny. I literally just had this conversation with a client yesterday, where she was like, “You know my avatar doesn’t have hair color, and I don’t know what color her eyes are.” And I said to her, “Listen, I get that. That’s what a lot of online coaches are teaching. Although my girl doesn’t have a name, I know her pain points. I know how she consumes content. I know what kind of media she likes to consume. And I know how to offer a solution to her pain. I think that’s the most important thing that we as coaches do with that.
EMILY: Yeah, and you know I’ve truly have become obsessed with learning all about the ideal client and helping me figure it out because it felt so foreign to me, and then helping others. You know, earlier this year, I didn’t have a name for my ideal client. I was like, that’s kind of woo-woo.
I went through an exercise where I actually did give the person a name. And I actually felt more connected to her. How do we connect? If it’s with the name? Then amazing. If it’s without a name? Amazing. It’s okay. There’s totally what works best for you. There are no wrong answers.
REGINA: Did you have to make any shifts and pivots when COVID hit?
EMILY: No, not really. Which is nice. I made some shifts based on how I grew as a person and really thinking about what I want to do and what lights me up in my business. So I decided to think about how it would be fun because when I first made the transition into entrepreneurship, it was amazing. I want the flexibility to do that. Because I have kids, it aligns. And so one of the things, as I was coming up with this, is, what would my business? ? How would it feel fun and easy? How would I feel lit up all the time? I love teaching. I absolutely love it. And one of the things that I thought about was I want to get out of doing the one-on-one client work. I have a vision for my business where I build more of an agency model. And in fact, I have somebody that does some quiz development work for me now. So I can really focus on content and the things that I’m strong at and let somebody else do the implementation. So that’s a good use of my time. But then I can also focus on teaching. So around COVID, I actually figured it out. And it was just beautiful the way that it worked out. And it happened more on the data visualization side, where the classes weren’t being held on in person anymore. And so we were going to do virtual classes.
Emily, would you like to teach one? Absolutely. And I just felt so lit up. And that’s where it felt really good. And a couple of other things just kind of hinted at that as well. I thought this is what I want to do. This is really what I want to do with my business. And I mean, it’s scary to put out there. But I actually want to build something, Amy Porterfield, right? Their signature offers its courses because I love doing that. So I have a whole vision. But COVID kind of gave me that realization. It gave me the opportunity to realize this is really how I want to show up.
REGINA: So it gave you an idea about what you really want the business to look like and how you want to be in the business too.
EMILY: Yeah, and it was amazing. And then I towards the end of COVID, because we’re not at the end. I launched my first group coaching program in the summer and built it, then launched, and we just finished it up. And it felt so great to support so many, teach them, and really help them. Because I love helping people, this sounds weird, right? But I love helping people be efficient. Because when you don’t worry about setting up an email sequence, or if you don’t have to worry about getting somebody’s email through a DM or you’ve got a quiz in your bio that people can just take, and it helps them in, and you set up an email sequence. And you don’t have to really think about anything, which is great, because then you spend time on your income-producing activities and your zone of genius. That’s what I talked about when I think about efficiency. I help you do that stuff that you don’t really want to do or want to focus on. So you can spend more time doing the things you want to do and love to do and focus on.
REGINA: Totally. What are some of the areas that you are finding entrepreneurs struggle with efficiency and the most?
EMILY: I think it is with scheduling. I know that that sounds off, as there are solutions out there. That’s easy. But I think scheduling is a big thing, going back and forth and figuring out what time works best for you. 12? 1? I hate that crap. I will send you my link. Somebody tried to do that, and I sent them my link. I say, look, here’s what I’m available. Schedule your time. I’m not doing this back and forth. I hate that. And then I think that there’s an opportunity to do some batch content working where you schedule, you plan out your content. And whether that’s email or social media. So that way, you can be more efficient when you write the post or write the email. Because I know I have felt that to where I’m like, “Oh crap, what do I write today?” Then when I don’t have my planner, when I don’t have my social media calendar. I feel lost. So that loss is time wasted. And if you think about how much your time is worth, those dollars add up, and that energy adds up. So those are simple things that I think we can just do little things to help improve efficiencies.
REGINA: You talked a little bit earlier about quizzes and about teaching people how to use quizzes for efficiency purposes. First of all, why should entrepreneurs be utilizing quizzes in their businesses? It’s what you’ve done really well. When I see the word quiz, I think Emily, There’s never a time that I see hear the word quiz, or I see people using quizzes in their business. I always think of you.
EMILY: That’s awesome. That is so great.
REGINA: Your marketing is working. It’s working. Yes. I love it.
EMILY: So here’s the thing: I think quizzes are an amazing tool for an entrepreneur to use. They are an awesome lead magnet to help us get those leads to build our email list or our text messaging list. So they’re really helpful in that, and they have a better conversion rate than most other lead magnets. So generally, a conversion rate for quizzes is around 50%. Traditional lead magnets tend to hang out in that 25 to 35% range. So, I know for my clients, when I’ve written the quiz, the best conversion rate has been 69%.
REGINA: Oh, it’s so good.
EMILY: I know, I love it. It is amazing. So it’s a great lead magnet. But what I love is that they can help you also. This is why I call it a tool. Because I think it can do so much for us. It brings the leads in that you can then nurture through email. But you can also learn about those leads. And this is the data nerd side of me saying, “Oh, this is the best part.” Because when you can learn about those folks, you can write content, whether that’s social media, or email, or whatever. You can also create services or a new freebie. Amy Porterfield did this the other day; actually, it was an ad she had said, “Hey, you took this quiz, and the results show that you really wanted a masterclass on X.” I was like, “Oh, that’s brilliant. That’s how it should be done.” So you help us learn more about our people. So that way, we can then serve them more, whether that’s through free content or paid content. So that’s why I love it. And then, just from an efficiency side, I love being able to have the results map over to the email service provider. So then, if you only want to talk to a certain group of people, you can write content and deliver it just to the people who are your people. So that way, again, you’re connecting, you’re building that trust. And when you go to sell your service or your product to them, you can connect with them instead of the general email blast. And so I mean, that takes some additional effort. So it’s not every entrepreneur at day one or zero is going to do that. But it really sets you up nicely. So that yeah, if you have some time that you can dig in, and actually, if you spend time on the front end, building out that onboarding sequence, then having a call to action that relates exactly to their specific result, they feel seen. And that’s why quizzes work. So well. They help us figure out who we are. We feel seen, and we get a ton of value. So that’s why I love them as a tool for entrepreneurs. They’re the best.
REGINA: There’s just something about a quiz too. And I think for me, it brings me back to magazine quizzes, and I feel quizzes have made a comeback. But I feel there was a while where there weren’t a lot of quizzes. But the early days of Facebook and Facebook quizzes were what Disney Princess character… So, I feel quizzes feed in so well to that mentality.
EMILY: Yeah. And it’s so funny because somebody was asking me about my program the other day, and I said, Oh, I’ve designed it to end up the holiday time. Because guess what, folks? Watch your notifications when BuzzFeed sends you 17 quizzes to take at Thanksgiving, right? We want that little bit of escapism. We’re curious We love talking about ourselves. So, of course, we want to know more about ourselves. So that’s why quizzes also do really well during the holiday time. So those are the reasons why they do so well and why you see them on Facebook. Facebook is a great platform for quizzes. But it’s interesting, because while you and I can go, Oh, my Disney Princess, yes, I’d love to find out. I’ve also heard on the other side of, well, Emily; I give two shits about what Disney Princess I am. Our quizzes are cutesy and fun, like, how can they really help my business? And that’s where I say, “Okay, let’s go. Let’s talk about it. I talked about quizzes communicating directly to those individuals who got a specific result. In email marketing terminology, that segmentation, segmentation actually gives you a ridiculous percentage increase on your revenue. So if you think up to 760% is cute. Cool. I do too. I also love that it can make me money. So um, so some of it is, it’s not just Disney Princess. Yes, those are the fun quizzes that we can see. But we can also develop a quiz that’s entertaining, or fun, or serious. But all of it can help our business. Again, we’re communicating. This is the thing I talk about when it comes to data, or tech, or quizzes. This is all to help facilitate that human connection. That’s what it’s about.
REGINA: Do you ever use quizzes? So we talked about quizzes as a lead magnet? But also have you? Or do you use quizzes? So say you have an existing email list? And you’re creating a new program? This is a completely selfish question. By the way, you’re creating a program, and you’re trying to figure out the biggest pain points and struggles on your list now. Is a quiz an efficient tool to get information from your existing list?
EMILY: Absolutely. That’s a great reason to use them. My clients so far are just using them for lead generation. However, this is the thing. And I think we’re kind of in the way of right because I think people now are starting to realize we need to own our list. We cannot just have social media because we don’t own that. So people are starting to own the list and figure out, “Okay, I need to do that.” How can I do that? What’s a good way? But that’s on the acquisition side. Really, there’s also the retention side, which is what you just talked about. So quizzes are great for that acquisition but also really good for retention. Because remember, as we are in business for a while, but people who signed up on our list on day one may have different needs on day 732. And so, as they change, we really need to get to know them more. And a quiz is a really fun way to do that. And they don’t have to opt-in. They’re already on your list. But you still learn information about them. So that way you can serve them and serve, you can actually take a look at “what does my list look like now,” what do they need, and because you had information when they opted into your list, so you can even you can do vintage analysis. Really take a look at, okay, well for the people who’ve been on my list for five years, or four years or whatever the thing is, how long, however long The time is, or their needs different than the people who’ve been on my list for one year or less.
REGINA: So aside from being the quizzing experts, what has your business pivoted into? What are you focusing on now in your business? And how are you working with people one on one or in a group setting?
EMILY: So, I have pivoted into group coaching because I can reach more people and reach the people that I want to work with. We talked about niching and that pivot what I realized when I was building out my program and thinking about my price points and knowing that quizzes can help entrepreneurs at all levels, not just the Marie Forleo and Amy Porterfield’s of the worlds. I really love helping those DIY entrepreneurs, or DIY with support is also how I think about it.
So how can I make quizzes available for them? Because for my one on one clients, my done-for-you clients, that price point is not something that a new or DIY entrepreneur would ly be willing to invest in. So how can I open that up and really clarifying, that these are the people that I really love? Building a product for them or service for them felt really great. So I have the group coaching. And then I also have where we partner where you really as the subject matter expert, you bring that in, and then I provide my quiz expertise to really come up with a product or a quiz that is the best possible product. And then, of course, I have my done for you for those clients that they just want to outsource with a strategic partner. Yeah. And then, that’s, that’s the main bread and butter of my entrepreneurial journey. Right now.
REGINA: That’s amazing. And that makes a lot of sense. When I think about a quiz, you have to be so specific in each line of the questioning to bring them to the next page for the next result.
EMILY: I mean, it’s your first touchpoint for a lot of you because a lot of times this is going to a cold audience, people who don’t really know us yet. So are they just, kinda know us. So this may be their first experience with us. So we really want to take every opportunity to connect with them. So we’re very intentional about how we do this. But I love it. It’s for me; it’s fun. So I love being able to show up and support people that way. I love that. It should be fun.
I think it’s great for us, right? Because it gives us this different perspective and helps us show up for our clients differently, right? Because if we had been entrepreneurs all along, we wouldn’t have the same perspective; we wouldn’t have that same appreciation. So I want to be the person that can support them and go, “Okay, you got sick, and you’re off track for a week or two. Don’t worry. We’ve got this.” And we can show up that way because we know what it is to need that level of support, to know what it is to work for somebody and not ever want to go back and really have everybody because we’re empowering to have everybody in our circle. A rising tide lifts all ships, the ships, so to help everybody so that we can rock it out. So that’s just kind of why I show up that way. I’m like, “Alright, girls, ladies, we’re gonna do this. We’re going to get it done. I am going to be there for you. Don’t you worry if you’ve got an issue, I got you.
REGINA: Oh my god, I love that. And that’s how I feel as a coach to the same mentality. It’s like, “we’re going to do this.” I struggled for so long by myself before I really invested in a coach and in a mastermind. Am I going to help you? We’re gonna get this done. It’s going to be great. Don’t worry. And where can people connect with you find you?
EMILY: Yeah, so I love hanging out on Instagram. So does my ideal client. Well, that’s a place for you today. So you can find me at Emily Coombs. That’s @emilykund. I am in my DMS a couple of hours a day. So I love connecting with people there. So please send me a Hello. Give me a little star emoji so I can see it in my DMS to let me know that you came from Regina, this podcast.
I want to work with people who I know it’s a good decision and a good investment because I hate waste. That’s part of that efficiency. I love answering questions about it. So you can find me on Instagram. My website is http://emilykund.com/, and I love connecting. If you want 10 steps to create a quiz, just shoot me a DM, and I will with your email, and I’ll email it over to you. And so yeah, thank you so much.
REGINA: This was so great. Thank you for being a guest, and while you always make data sexy, hey, you make quizzes very sexy. Love it.
If you guys love this episode, Emily and I would be so appreciative if you took a screenshot, shared it on your story, tag Emily and me, and tell us what you loved about it. I love you guys so much. Thank you for another great week, and I will see you next week.
Guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you loved what you heard, I would be beyond thankful if you would share this podcast on your Instagram story and share with me what about the episode with me or my guests that you loved. Also, please remember if you love this podcast, to rate review and subscribe on iTunes so that you don’t miss out on all of the incredible guests and topics that we have lined up for you during this crazy year. And as always, if there is ever a guest or topic or anything you would like for me or a guest to discuss. Just shoot me a DM on Instagram @reginaalawrence.
Regina Lawrence Esq. is a former trial attorney and law school professor turned soulful business & life strategist. She has found that so many entrepreneurs have these brilliant ideas and dreams but don’t know how to take the dream and create a system or structure to make that dream & idea profitable. That is where Regina comes in. With discipline, consistency, systems & structure, we can’t help but create profit & fulfillment from our soul-driven business ideas.
Regina’s approach to coaching marries her background in legal analysis, spirituality, mindset coaching, holistic nutrition, and neuroscience to create an experience that will assist you in getting into alignment, get clear on what you are here to do and what steps and systems to implement to make that dream a profitable reality.
You can find Regina on Instagram @reginaalawrence.