Today we get another epic female entrepreneur who has been such a mentor and friend to me, Tracy O’Malley. Tracy O’Malley is a multi-million dollar entrepreneur, a speaker, an author, a world-renowned master performance and business coach. She has helped thousands of women ignite their purpose, profits, and build a legacy by giving them the tools to becoming bulletproof. Tracy is an enneagram coach, and she has used the enneagram framework for over seven years to help accelerate transformation, build powerful and effective, and compassionate leaders, and create sustainable and lasting change. So something that Tracy and I really dive into which you will get to experience on the podcast is What is the enneagram? And how can we all use that framework, in our personal lives, in our businesses, in our romantic relationships in our families, and Tracy really dives through each of the different Enneagram types and helps us to understand what that framework is and how we can use it to be the most successful in our connections and our communications with all the different people in our lives.
You will love this episode and as I talked about in the previous episode, make sure that you go and find Tracy’s podcast. She really dives into all the different types of Enneagrams and what we look like what our strengths are, what our weaknesses are, what we’re like in health, what we’re like when we’re really not doing well to really understand us. You can go find Tracy on Instagram at @tracy_omalley she is Tracy O’Malley everywhere on the internet and you can also go find her at http://www.tracyomalley.com.
Regina: Today we have a dear friend and mentor of mine and it’s so funny before I even spoke to this woman and had any conversation and connection with her in real life. I found her on YouTube. I was a network marketer. I was had started a network marketing company, and I was trying to learn everything possible. And this Enneagram 8 Irish woman from Chicago was teaching her team about how to be successful in this business. And that was my first taste of Tracy O’Malley. And I was like, whoo, this woman’s tough. I like her. And then later on right before I left my full-time practice as an attorney, I was listening to a podcast with one of my mentors, Laurie Harder. And I remember hearing Tracy share her story about her family and her history. And there were a lot of parallels in our lives. And I was like, I, I’m going to meet this woman at some point. And I had no idea I was moving to Arizona. And as the synchronistic way, my life has gone I end up in Arizona with a mutual dear friend of mine, Tracy’s Nicole Miden. And we had coffee and she said, there’s a woman coming, I really want you to meet her. Her name’s Tracy O’Malley, you two are going to love each other. And I was just like, I’ve known I’m going to meet Tracy O’Malley, I love her. And I don’t even know her. And she showed up for coffee. And we spent hours connecting Tracy is a soul sister, she is such a beautiful mentor to me. And she has the ability to see me and to speak to me in a way that most people I really don’t feel as seen as the way Tracy sees me. So I’m so happy to have her. She is a performance coach who uses the Enneagram framework. Ladies and gentlemen, Tracy O’Malley.
Tracy: Oh my gosh, I didn’t know you found me on youtube originally. Oh my god, those videos are so crazy good. But like so you know, this is just proof that like, you can be messy. And do this, because those videos are friggin messy. And they’re amazing, though. Right?
Regina: They’re amazing. And it’s so funny to say they’re messy because I remember seeing them. And I was like, This woman is so successful. And she’s just saying it like it is she’s speaking to my heart. And I’m so happy that we have come together in this lifetime. And we get to come full circle and record a podcast episode today.
Tracy: Oh, sister, I’m honored to be here. What are we here to talk about? Love it.
Regina: So one of the things that you have helped me with so much is using the enneagram framework first to understand myself like I feel so same with the enneagram. But the end is to understand the people I coach, the people I work with, and the people in my life that I have relationships with. High level, will you explain to the listeners? What is the enneagram? And how do we use this beautiful framework?
Tracy: Right? And you know, this was my secret tool. I used it first in my home, then in my businesses, and now I teach the integration of it. And it is so freaking powerful because I too when I didn’t know Ennea, what is this? Like my therapist asked me to take it while I was in rehab. Like that’s a long-ass story. Right? Like you can tell things were probably not going so well in my life. If I am getting this information in rehab, just you know. Anyway, that’s another show. But when my well my therapist who is also an enneagram, eight, and from Texas asked me to take the enneagram test. I was like no, I don’t want to be labeled anything else, right? And I know a lot of you might be sensitive to labels, right? This isn’t a label. So she and she said that to me. She said, Honey, this is going to help you get out of the box that the world has put you in and you have put yourself in, and let’s just be real your best thinking has gotten you here. So how about we just give it a shot? I was like well, okay, so the enneagram I like to explain it it’s a diagram with nine basic personality types.
Ennea means nine, Gram is diagram, or whatever the little circle thing is, right? Very high level, right? And what I loved about it was it was a combination of psychology, and spirituality and I’m all for psychology, but I think it’s very textbook. Psychology is very, very textbook. And the thing The reason I am not a therapist, every therapist I’ve ever had all nine of them said I should be a therapist. But I was like No, no, no, It’s too technical and booky. And I want to sit across from somebody who says like, Yeah, me too. I get it. This is my experience. And you know, that’s why I never became a therapist and decided to be a coach. So I can use my story as well as all the tools of psychology. So Enneagram is part psychology and a big part of spirituality. And I believe we’re all born with a temperament and disposition. I’ve carried two babies in my body and their temperament and disposition is very much their personality type. And, you know, and then we’re put into an environment, a world, a household, schools, where how that temperament and disposition can be expressed can alter based on our experiences and our perspectives as children, right? And we kind of lose that spiritual part of us. And we go into behaviors and habits and the psychology shit, right? But if we just focus on the psychology, we don’t get to the root of the spiritual soul roadmap, which is intertwined in this beautiful framework of the enneagram. We feel like we’re throwing a bunch of shit up at the wall, hoping something sticks. And what the enneagram gave to me, was a level of compassion first for myself that I had never had in my life. Because when we have those things come up, that really irritate us that are holding us back that we consciously cognitively in our adult brains, no, we shouldn’t be doing this, but we’re doing it, we’re going to sabotage we’re going to procrastinate, we’re gonna be like, I’m going to blow up my life. I knew that wasn’t the thing to do. But that part of me that was so fearful and vulnerable was like, No, this is too scary to move forward. So let’s just blow this shit up. And so that framework really allows you to see why you do everything you do, not just what you do. A lot of the other kinds of personality things out there are just behavior tests. And we can change behavior at the drop of a dime, you and I both growing up the way that we did, yeah, we could change the behavior in a second. But if we don’t get to the root of why we feel the need to do that, we’re just kicking the can down the street, and you get to my age of, you know, a few months shy of 50. And you’re like, What the fuck is my life all about, I don’t even know what I love. I don’t even know how to have fun. I’m just like this chameleon moving through life.
And so that gave me compassion for myself, freedom, and also a huge, very real eye-opening awareness that I only knew how to communicate to people like me. And that sitting at home, when I got home from rehab were two beautiful teenagers that were not like me. And no wonder what was on my heart never landed how I intended it to on theirs. And so I started to learn about the other types. And I acknowledged that with my kids, and no wonder, my house was a shit show for a little while. And so using this to not only have compassion for myself, but also to know how others might receive me, even at my best, how intense that can be, but also to have compassion for other people to understand that they’re not afraid of the same thing I’m afraid of, they’re not motivated by the same thing I am. And if I really care about this person, whether it’s somebody I love or lead, do I want to be effective? Or do I want to be right? And so I started using this to be effective in my home and things changed overnight, overnight with teenagers. And then obviously, a few months later, I brought it into the network marketing space and was able to go from a $0 income with no social network to a million dollars in two years. Using the framework of the Enneagram, nobody knew I was using it to really speak life and empower the people in front of me, none of which, you know, I have seven millionaires in my organization today. And they’re represented by five different Enneagram types and not one as an eight. So that can, you know, to be able to bring out that in that kind of diverse leadership speaks volumes, I never could have done that before understanding what this is. So it’s a beautiful framework to help you navigate you, as well as bring out the best and speak life into those you lead in love.
Regina: Totally. With the different types of the enneagram. So there are nine different personalities, will you tell the listeners what each type is, and explain them a little bit?
Tracy: Yeah, and I’ll break it down into the three groups. So you know, there are nine personality types, and there are three in each category. And these are like the centers of intelligence, I like to say, and we use all three of them. There’s the head which is the thinking center, there’s the body, which is the Action Center. And then there’s the heart, which is the feeling center. And there are three types within each center. And although we use all three, one definitely dominates based on your type. So the eights, the nines, and the ones, they are in the action or body center. All three of those are motivated by truth and justice, right? In some form, and all three look very different in regards to that. But the underlying emotion for those three types is anger. And also how that gets expressed can look very different. So the eight is the challenger motivated by truth and justice for the innocent in the vulnerable, right? So they’re the more domineering type, they’re more explosive with their anger. Right? Very intense, the most intense type on the enneagram and that’s where I fall, the nine the peacemaker, you would think they’re motivated by truth and justice. And that anger would be theirs, but it is they seek truth and justice for the collective, like the environment, the surroundings. And so that’s why they can be the most chameleon-like on the enneagram. And their anger is shut down, they shut it down because they want to keep the peace. But they can express their anger very passive-aggressively. That’s how they keep from being controlled is with their procrastination. They’re stubborn in their passive-aggressiveness, eight won’t be controlled by that aggressive, domineering kind of explosive intensity that I have. And then you have the one in the Action Center, which they’re all about truth and justice. They’re like the sheriff in town, they’re the integrity police everything is right or wrong, good or bad, black or white, no gray area so they will lay down the law for what’s right. And they can be kind of closed-minded, if they’re not careful and their anger is more internalized, they will become that inner critic. So like the eights explosive outward, the nines kind of shove it down, the ones internalize it. In the feeling center, you have the twos the threes and the fours and all three of these which is where you fall in my dear Regina is on this in this category of the center of intelligence, all are driven by a need for significance, that’s their motivation and everything they do. The twos the threes, and fours are all motivated for significance in a different way though, right? And the underlying emotion for all three of them is shame. And that looks very different for each one too. So the twos, the helpers are motivated they find significance and what they do for others. So also why they’re called the helper right so they can feel read what other people need before their own, they have a hard time saying what they need, right because this is their job in the world. And their shame is more externalized like when they feel like they’ve let people down their shame kind of is on their sleeve. Right they can become a martyr, very high prone to codependency all types can be but like twos can really fall into that the threes need for significance. They believe they’re significant by what they do achieve or how they appear. It isn’t necessarily about helping somebody else. It’s like, see the goal, hit the goal, crush the goal next. They believe that their worth is in what they do, or how they achieve, or what they appear. So this can be you know, this can be detrimental to their relationships and their health, quite honestly. And that shame it’s hard to believe a three like you don’t ever see it. And this is probably why you know, you because I could see that part of you. Not in a judgmental way. But just like the nines bury the anger the threes bury the shame. And they’ll just move on to the next thing to not feel it. Right?
The fours are driven by significance and finding whoever their authentic self is. So it’s all about them. Threes are about what they do. The twos are about others. The fours are like on this constant quest of who the hell am I? And so that’s why they can be a little dramatic. They’re the most emotional on the enneagram. And they have the ability to hold the most emotional space too because they’re not rattled by emotion. And their shame is internalized like they’ll go to the envy the woe is me. There’s something missing in me. So you see like the twos externalize that the threes, shove it and fours, internalize it. The last center is the thinking center. And this is the five the six in the seven they all three are motivated by the need to have certainty and safety in some ways. And the fives the investigators, they need to be certain they’re going to be equipped, capable energetically and resourcefully. So they can kind of hoard their energy, hoard their resources because they want to always be prepared. They don’t want to ever appear incapable. They’re the YouTube kind of dark hole people. They’re the most introverted on the enneagram. The underlying emotion for these threes is fear and anxiety. Okay, so the fives internalize that. They’ll go into the I call it the five cave like they’ll internalize it, and they’ll kind of like ghost people. Yeah, right. The six is they have a need for certainty and safety at a high high level. They are the master troubleshooters, they’re the worst-case scenarios. They don’t ever want to be blindsided. So they’re always like Yeah, but what about this? What about this? What about this? What about this? Because their need for certainty is so strong. But once they trust you, you have somebody for life but if you cross them, you’re screwed because you’ll be dead to them. Their fear and anxiety is externalized you can see them they’re like spinning out like a Tasmanian devil, sometimes my best friend is a six. So I know this one very, very well, the sevens, I’m raising one, they Yeah, they have a motivational need to be certain, they’re never going to be trapped or stuck in a situation. They’re the innovators, the enthusiast on the enneagram.
Regina: They’re so fun, everybody needs a seven friend,
Tracy: Oh, they are so fun, they will look there’s the optimist. They’re like, no stupid idea. Like best cheerleaders, they can know, you know, they because they don’t want to feel trapped, or caged in any situations, they can appear very flaky, because they don’t want to be trapped in anything painful. They can bolt. And because of that underlying fear and anxiety, they don’t want to be trapped, they shove it down. So they just bounce, bounce, bounce. They’re all over the place when they’re under stress. And they can become very rigid about that. So you can see how you know, these three different centers of intelligence are all three motivated by the same thing, but it can look very different. And how that underlying emotion for each of those can be expressed very differently.
Regina: Are there certain pairings that you see, like, romantically that work really well together?
Tracy: I mean, I am, I am the firm believer that anyone healthy can get along, for sure. But definitely like me, and a three would have a really hard time romantically. Yeah, we would mean one would have a very hard time romantically. Eights. And nines are great together. twos and threes are great together. You know, I think that fives and sixes, you know, when you have, when you’re motivated by the same thing, but it’s a little bit different, you kind of bring the best of both together. Also, I think, having somebody that’s on your wings, so the wings are the special sauce, I like to say they’re better, they’re the more effective tools in your tool belt because let’s just be real. Like, I use this example all the time, we don’t need to YouTube how to use a screwdriver, right? We all know, we can pick it up out of the junk drawer, we know how to use a screwdriver, that’s kind of our main type, we know, you know how to be a three in your sleep, I know how to be an eight in my sleep, right? Autopilot. Now let’s be real, the three in the eight aren’t always the right tool for the job. Right? But if we’re just trying to use a screwdriver, when we need a chainsaw, we’re, we’re in trouble. So these wings are like those extra tools that you need. And I find that a lot of time, it’s why my daughter and I think, now that I understand her, and she understands me because she’s one of my wings, we have this complementing of each other. So I think a lot of time, whatever your wing is, ends up being a really great partner for you. Especially if you’re healthy, any number will be a shit show. If you’re unhealthy, it will be a shit show if one of you is growing, and the other one isn’t. And one of you is either going to dumb it down or bolt like so really being open to growth together is going to be really, really important. I’m currently dating a four on the enneagram, which they’re a great pairing because my intensity is very loud and very strong. And his emotional capacity is very loud and strong. 15 years ago, we probably would have ended up in jail and killed each other. But we had explosive, amazing intense hot sex as well. We’re both addicted to some drama in different ways for different reasons. And but today that’s used very effectively, it’s very passionate and powerful in a healthy way. So you can see where it’s the level of health that’s more important rather than the actual type. But I find wings of each other is really cool.
Regina: So we have our primary number that we are and then the wing is the number that appears either to the right or to the left. So for example, I’m a three, my wing would be a two or a four. Right?
Tracy: Yes. And I get asked a lot if our primary number changes, it does not how it gets expressed does like I said, in the beginning, it’s like we’re born with a temperament and disposition and calling 100% I knew I was an eight like looking back I know as an eight you’re obviously a three like no doubt about it. How that God expressed in my home changed absolutely because of the crazy that I grew up with. And you grew up with how you showed up in your home was very different than your three like probably we become that Peacemaker is that’s your stress number and it’s my wing and I used it in that way in our home.
Our core number doesn’t change. How it gets expressed does. We can use those wings, we can use a growth number, we can use a stress number so we have four other types that are connected very closely to us. And when you understand that framework you can toggle between it. But what I like to explain this, because there are people that might think that it changes. Like in this area this and in this area in this it’s no, it’s kind of like your sun sign, your astrology. Yeah, you’re Virgo, right? Like, I’m an Aries, that’s not changing no matter what’s happening in my life. Same thing with your enneagram type. Now you have things like rising signs, Moon signs that can change the expression of your Virgo-ness and my Aries-ness right? It’s why it can be next to another Aries and express very differently because of the moon or the rising sign. Wings can do the same thing. Wings can definitely change how my eight-ness is expressed depending on the situation, or if I’m under stress, or if I’m in a growth pattern. So you know how I kind of explain that is like, just like your birth sign that’s not changing. Know, your Enneagram type doesn’t.
Regina: And I think the way we express, like the only thing that I’ve noticed that changes as I am becoming a healthier human, I’m understanding how my natural way of being is received. And so I’m learning how to present myself in a way that maybe I’m not coming in hot 100 and fuckin 50% and I’m coming in a little bit lower energy to assess the situation. Before I go full fuckin enneagram three Virgo.
Tracy: A thousand percent! That was the biggest lesson for me. Like that was the biggest aha moment is like I’m loud. Even before I opened my mouth, my energy enters a room before I’m even there, and being mindful of the past. Like, when I was coming from fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt, ego. I thrived on that energy making people feel uncomfortable because I got off on it. Like when I was in the car industry, are you freaking kidding me? But because I care deeply about people, and especially the ones that I lead in love, I have to be very mindful that my energy will enter before I do, and to really know that like, get in the right place. Like when you come from love, compassion, compassion, empathy, service, and grace, that intense energy is not changing. Your intense aggressive nature is not changing. But how we present it when it’s coming from that love and compassion that other people aren’t wired like us. And we need to kind of lube them up and ease them into this energy before we kind of go ham on them. They’re able to receive our leadership and our love more effectively. And so because I’m raising a two, I have a two son in my house, which is the most empathetic, like he had major anxiety, physical, tics, and stuff, just when I would enter a room and he could feel it. I was saying nothing but he’s like holy moly. And knowing that I have an empath in my space, they’re going to feel all my intensity and it might completely freak them out. And so especially with my son or those that are more like feelers, the two’s the three’s and four’s like you can feel me coming I’m mindful of my motive with my energy even before I enter a room so that it can be received. And that was really powerful knowing that it isn’t always what I say it’s how I am presenting myself whether or not people can receive what I mean and that was powerful. The other part, something that you probably need to be aware of because you are so bold a three is so bold when you go into your stress number which is the nine which is like checking out when you go out and go off the grid nobody knows you’re struggling but you’re struggling? Because your energy is so loud people can feel that and can feel very abandoned even though you’re in self-preservation mode. That was the other aha moment for me because an eight under stress goes to that dark side of the five which is very like shut down and understanding that even though I’m processing and you’re processing This is where we’re like, those people that feel our energy all the time even when we’re saying nothing when we kind of energetically shut down that void is felt even if we don’t articulate it and it can make people feel rejected and abandoned. And this is important in leadership if you want people to trust your leadership you need to communicate and so one of the things when I’m, “No I’m going to the five cave.”, like especially with my friends and my kids, I’m like, I am I’m going there and it is not personal. I just need some time to collect myself and kind of like build a case on why I can come out of this okay, but I’m articulating, I’m shutting off energetically and it’s not personal. It’s changed everything and then I get more support. It’s crazy. And I don’t stay at that rate for very long. But that was really hard for me to articulate because we’re not aware of it when we’re under that kind of stress. But using like understanding the framework and knowing that that’s the five cave. for me, it’s like the warning light, it’s like you’re going here. Now, we’re not going to stay here very long. And I can have compassion for, okay, what’s happening around me that I’m going there, instead of just beating myself that I’m there, which is what a lot of us have done. Because I know for three when you guys are ghosting people, in your bedrooms with the shades pulled, and you’re under the covers and curled up on fetal position, nobody knows it, energetically, they can feel it, but they can’t put their finger on it. And when you can see that happening, instead of beating yourself up for it, which I know threes definitely do, you can say, Okay, I’m gonna give myself some grace, right here, I’m under a lot of stress, what’s it really about? Because there’s shame, there’s some shame involved.
So that’s how we use this framework, to not stay stuck for a long time, it doesn’t mean we’re never going to because as we go and grow and hit new levels, whether it’s in love, or romance, or, or business or friendship, anytime we’re going to elevate ourselves, that little part of us is going to be triggered hardcore to protect that vulnerability. And just knowing and understanding this as a compass will allow you to say, we’re there. It’s uncomfortable. But we can elegantly guide ourselves through it, not avoid it, not bypass it, not shove it, but go through it so that we can actually move forward and it feels really good.
Regina: It’s so funny when you said that the three goes into a cave and we hide in the dark. That’s the thing that I love about the Enneagram is that once you start to understand the patterns of behavior, that go along with the different types, depending on the state of their health, you can be you can kind of predict, like with coaching clients, you know, I have a client too. And I know what happens when he gets overwhelmed. And I know how to actually speak to him, and to motivate him in a way that it will be really received. You know, I’m a very intense woman, but I have a firm gentle way of working with him where he’s like, you know, you’re right. I’m gonna do that, you know, and it’s, it’s understanding, it teaches us this greater, more elegant way of communicating and connecting with humans.
Tracy: It’s so great that you said that because you know before you know as an eight I’m always like in protector mode. So if somebody challenged me like that, two, for example, like knowing where to go, it’s no wonder I almost killed my own son when he was 14 because he was under extreme stress, which takes on the unhealthy parts of the eight, where I’m like, Oh, great, we’re putting the boxing gloves on because it felt so disrespectful. Same thing with my daughter her stress number as a seven is that rigid one and all of a sudden, this free spirit like anything’s possible is super rigid. And the eight in me is like feeling like you’re disrespecting me. I’m gonna kick your fucking ass. I don’t care if I birthed you. But now understanding their stress numbers instead of feeding into my son’s, you know, resentment and anger. I can see that as a warning light. And instead of putting the gloves on, I can say, Where have you been over giving today? Do you have some resentment going on? How can I help? automatically diffuses any feel seen Same thing with my daughter when she’s in that rigidness? Oh, my God, we used to battle because I was like, how dare you disrespect me, I’ve been run this frickin house just fine. And all of a sudden, now you got an opinion. And I would take it as disrespect. And now I see her and when I see that come out in her. I’m like, Okay, what are you feeling anxious about? Where do you feel like you’re overwhelmed? And again, it diffuses her and helps guide her through it. When people are in their stress number, it can feel very personal, but it isn’t. And when you can use this for that, you will avoid conflict and you will actually empower the people instead of enabling them to stay stuck.
Regina: Yeah, something that you said a couple of minutes ago, which is something I’ve been thinking about a lot as a three is our energy. And so we come just naturally at our core. We are giant energetic beings, where before we even speak our presence is felt. The thing that I’ve been working on articulating and thinking about is how do we teach people how to manage that energy? And you know, I think a lot and speak a lot about masculine and feminine energy, and I am big masculine energy, but I am big feminine energy. And I have no desire to suppress who I am as a woman, but also how to step in energetically and manage it in a way that I’m not overwhelming people. And I know you’ve done a lot of work around this.
Tracy: I think, like you said, we all carry different kinds of energy, but how that can present, you know, the more assertive types are the sevens, eights, and threes. So we’re going to kind of go head into things, and that can feel a lot. But for all three of those for the sevens, the eights, and the threes. When we go in aggressive or masculine energy, it’s because we’re in protective mode, we’re trying to protect a vulnerability. When we’re going in the feminine part of our energy, it’s where we’re open to receiving and we know, even if things don’t go great, we’re going to be okay, there’s something beautiful in this, like, we see the bigger picture. Where that masculine energy is like a rabid dog almost right? Yeah, you know, then you have a more compliant, the more compliant types, which are the ones, the twos, and the sixes, where they, they’ll kind of like teeter-totter on like going forward or pulling back going, you know, because it kind of, huh, they want to do the right thing, where we’re just going in hot, and then you have the more withdrawn types that they carry a different kind of energies, the fives, the fours, the fives and the nines. And so when they kind of pit stress, they withdraw first, and that can feel like we’re we can feel aggressive and domineering, they can feel like abandoning and withdrawing. And the other ones are just like, oh, let me keep the peace here, right in some way. And so how I help people do that, and how the framework of this can help you is, knowing what that core motive and core fear are for your type. So for you, you’re motivated by significance, you always will be. There’s a healthy version of that, and a not-so-healthy version of that. And when we kind of energetically especially the three is coming in hot and aggressive. It’s because you fear that you’re going to be exposed and not be seen as worthy, because maybe you’re going to miss the mark on something. And so you’ll overcompensate with that masculine energy. So knowing what motivates you is key, and what your biggest fear is. So for me, I have big ass energy, my best friend says you have the biggest dick energy I’ve ever met in my life. My daughter said that too. It’s true. So I know there’s a time and a place for it. And if it’s coming from love and compassion, it’s powerful beyond measure, the greatest leaders in the world, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King are eights with big dick energy that are coming from the right place. It can be very destructive when it’s coming from the other place. So checking yourself before you wreck yourself is really, really important. Knowing my motive is always for truth and justice for the vulnerable and innocent. All right, my biggest fear is that I will be betrayed, violated, or put in a vulnerable situation. So when I’m coming in hot, and I know that there’s fear involved, it’s like, Okay, I’m scanning. So I don’t kind of just bulldoze everyone. I have to kind of scan. Okay, I’m feeling this in my body first. That’s the first thing. Start listening to your body. And really scanning. Why do I feel like I’m about to be betrayed or violated right now? Because my cognitive brain is like, I got this. But my nervous system in that eight and me is saying, “Abort mission, Abort mission or kill somebody.” because this is not good. And really checking my motive, okay, what do I feel is the fear of the violation or betrayal here and for each enneagram type, you have your fear, your core fear, and your core motivation. That is your filter, you have to run everything through. What I say to threes all the time, “Are you doing this? Because you feel like you have to prove something for your worth?”, “Are you choosing this career because it’s the awesome thing to do?” “Are you doing this because you really love it?” “Am I doing this to show how strong I am, or because this is the right thing to do?” And if I’m doing it because I want to prove how strong I am, then I have to kind of slow my roll. If you’re doing it because you feel like this is how you gain worth in other people’s eyes. You got to slow your roll. But it takes discernment and radical honesty in order to navigate and manage that energy. And it’s gonna feel uncomfortable because of course if I feel like a vulnerable situation, I want to go into protective mode. But it isn’t always the right thing to do for me to grow and for me to be able to effectively show up for people. But you have to be radically honest with yourself. You have to humble yourself enough to know like, “Yep, I’m coming from a fearful place.” which is very hard for three and an eight to do because we want to prove to the world our worth and our strength, and then run it through that filter like even with social media, I will write a post. I can justify anything in my head, I can justify that this is good. But before I hit post, I really run it through the filter. Am I doing this? Because it’s on my heart too? Or am I trying to teach somebody a lesson and using my strength and power to show the world that you can’t fuck with me? And there have been many, many times where I have to, like, click alt delete complete, and it would be good for people to read. Yeah, but my motive behind it isn’t in integrity. And that’s really hard to do. But once you get the habit of that, that means you’re going to be saying yes to the things that actually fire you the fuck up. And you won’t have as much resentment, because you’ll be saying yes to the right things, and no to the right things. But it takes some honesty with yourself, and very clear understanding and compassion for what you’re motivated by and what you’re most afraid of, because that’s not going to change, no matter how much development I do, or you do, I will always be looking out for betrayal and violation no matter what. And it’s sneaky. The more development you do, the more sneaky a gets.
Regina: I have this analysis I have to run myself through it always involves fear of failure. And I feel myself starting to go into the dark, it’s always a dark Netflix hole, the blinds are closed, Netflix is done, I will lose myself and binge watch a TV series and my phone will be on airplane mode for 48 hours. So now I feel when that’s happening, and I have to have the conversation with myself. What are you actually afraid of? What do you think’s going to happen? And it’s like, I’m afraid that if I do this thing, I’m going to fail? And it’s like, Okay…
Tracy: And then what would that mean?
Regina: Exactly. What would people think like, and I have to go and I literally have to walk myself through that and then walk myself back up. And realize I’ve just created a scenario in my head where I’m afraid of judgment. I’m afraid of shame. I’m afraid of failure. I made it up in my brain like I have to I but I have to take the time to walk through it. Because if not, I’m not going to get out of the shame spiral.
Tracy: No. And the thing is, I know for those of you listening right now you’re like Jesus, that’s freaking exhausting. And yes, at first it is. It was way easier to be ignorant to all of this, let me tell you, but there was a lot of wreckage I left in my path by not doing that. And the good part about this is is the more you’re consistent with running it through your filter, and with compassion and love, like when you are I know for a fact probably a good five, six years ago, if you were in the Netflix cave, you were judging yourself more harshly. Where now you understand what’s happening. This is me under massive stress. If there was like a six-year-old version of you sitting on the bed with you watching Netflix, you wouldn’t beat her up, you would say, Honey, what are you worried about? And that’s really how I operate when I’m in my five cave, like, okay, little T, what’s going on here? Like, what are you really afraid of? What are you building a case against here? And it does slow you down for a moment, but you will have way more power and energy moving forward for the short term, slow down to kind of process and kind of check yourself, you’ll be able to go the distance, it’ll be more sustainable, and it’ll be for the right reason. It’s amazing.
Regina: I give myself these 20 minute, chunks of time whereas you know, this is an interesting fear. But as the business grows and gets bigger, you know, I have two weeks ago, I had a really big business deal come in, and it was incredible. And my first response was fear. And I was like, Oh, no, and I laid on my bed and I was like, you need to think about this for a few minutes. Why are you so scared? You’re scared that you’re not going to be good enough that you’re going to fuck it up. And everyone’s going to know exactly I was like, okay, so I gave myself the time. I gave myself 20 minutes to process it and I was like Regina, you’ve never failed anything. It’s gonna be crazy. You’re gonna do a fucking great job. Get out of bed and celebrate the fact that you’re winning like but I have to give myself those 20-minute breaks sometimes.
Tracy: And sometimes it’s gonna be days and sometimes. I mean, I was just doing my very first collaboration with another human being and she happens to be my best friend who I trust with my life. Like if I die, she’s in charge of everything. That’s how much I trust her and doing a collaboration even with her. I was like I’m going to be betrayed or violated. I was like, Holy moly. Like this is like what are you really afraid of? She’s like you trust her more than any human in The entire world. Like that’s how powerful it can be, especially as we’re elevating ourselves. And I was telling you about a big huge opportunity for me like that, puts me on people’s radar, which, when you’re on people’s radar, the chances of being betrayed or violated go way, way up. And I like to kind of get you when you don’t see me coming. And I could have sabotaged that. And the old me probably would have ignored the email for a few days where they end up picking somebody else. I’ve had that happen. I’ve blown major opportunities before because of that. And knowing that today, because when I first saw that, I was like, Oh my God, that’s a big deal. And that could really ruffle a lot of feathers, you know, based on what you and I were talking about. And in the past, I would have waited 48 hours to even respond. And I did it immediately because I was like, okay, little t I know you’re afraid but you know what, this is fucking big league, you go for it. Cuz even if we do get betrayed or violated, we know how to get out of it. And we’ll be okay.
Regina: Exactly, there’s always a chance that… I had this therapist, and he was like, so what if he leaves? So what if he dies? So what if something happens? What’s going to happen to you then? And I was like, you’re right. But yeah, like we hold on to the fear of like, But what if the worst thing that I fear happens to me?
Tracy: You know, I was telling you about dating, and I didn’t date for seven years, right. And you know, my guard was up for so so long. And you know, it wasn’t easy. Like me, kind of being the healthy version of myself in relationships, I only know dysfunction and intensity as love. You do too like, I know, drama, and fighting as love. And so I could see myself in all my other relationships, really picking fights, just to prove that the intensity means love, right? Even though it’s not what I want, I want that beautiful kind of partnership love, and really recognizing how I was showing up in that and how afraid I was and really getting to the point where I don’t have to put my walls up. And if this doesn’t work out, I already know. You got to look for the evidence of the good parts of this, even if it doesn’t work out the way that we want it in our heads and our hearts. And although Yes, it would be painful. If that didn’t work out, it would be really sucky if it didn’t. What I have learned about myself in that relationship is so priceless, that even if my heart gets hurt, I wouldn’t trade that experience and that lesson and that learning and that wisdom and compassion for myself for anything. The thing is, we can know all the information in the world. That’s why I don’t like psychology so much like you can tell me all the things but if we don’t flex the muscle in a relationship, all we just have is information. So I knew all the things. But I hadn’t been in a relationship in seven years to actually work that muscle. And I remember the first time I flex that vulnerability muscle in a romantic partnership, I thought I couldn’t get up the next day, kind of like when you do squats for the first time. You just sit on the toilet, you think you’re gonna die. But a week later, a week later, when you’re doing you know the squats a little bit more. Same thing with your emotional muscles, it does get easier. It doesn’t mean it’s less scary all the time. But you know, you have evidence that you know it, you’re going to pick yourself up back up, you’re going to lift the weight and the resistance is stronger and the muscle is stronger to be able to move forward. So, you know, I don’t know what’s going to happen in this relationship. He could call me tonight and say, You know what? Mistake, sorry. And I will be heartbroken and I will be more than okay.
Regina: Absolutely. I was just having a conversation with someone last night we were talking about the deepest heartaches, the deepest pain that we’ve experienced in our lives, especially in romantic relationships. And I said, “You know what, before I had that pain, I had the greatest lessons, I had the greatest experiences, I had beautiful love.” And yeah, I spent a year really mourning and getting through that breakup, I wouldn’t change it because I wouldn’t have the expansion that I have and the growth and the learning that I had on the other side of it.
Tracy: You got to break down the muscle in order to build it back up just like in our body and just like our hearts, sometimes our hearts need to get broken so that we can open it up. And I know if I didn’t experience the kind of heartbreak that I have in my relationships romantically, I never would have been able to be open to this beautiful love that I have right now and be able to receive it and believe I was worthy of it without sabotaging it. So yeah, you got to break down the muscle including the heart muscle in order for it to be stronger and work optimally.
Regina: And for an enneagram three Virgo. I don’t like not having control over the situation.
Tracy: I know you don’t. And as an enneagram, eight Irish Aries like are you kidding me, I will not be controlled. But you know, I don’t really have any control over anything that happens in this world except my response to it. So I still don’t like to be controlled either. But I can be effectively led by the divine. And so can you.
Regina: Thank you so much for this beautiful conversation.
Tracy: It’s awesome. It’s awesome. Like, understanding this framework really allows me to see people at their core, not just their behaviors, where a lot of us are triggered by, you know, the behaviors and all of that. And with this understanding, whenever I see kind of salty behaviors, or people being dickheads, and I can still be a dickhead, just because I’m like, I know this, I can still be an asshole. But I immediately instead of being triggered by it, or judge them based on behaviors, I really look at the core of probably what’s going on for them. Because a lot of the behaviors I can see like, Oh, that’s the six, they’re losing their fucking mind because they feel like they’re going to be blindsided, they have a lot of questions instead of, like, judging them for that I can compassionate be like, Okay, what are you really afraid of right here? And when we can do that, even in the grocery store, to the checker, you know, this is where credibility trust connection is built. And that is where all the juicy parts of life happen. And it’s powerful. It’s powerful.
Regina: I love that. Also, if you guys are interested in learning so much more about the enneagram Tracy has her own podcast, “The leadership formula” and you can go and check it out. She has done so many great episodes, and fun episodes, dissecting all the different types of Enneagrams, connections on her Instagram. She’s always sharing stories and information about the enneagram from every different level, from relationships in romance, friendships, family, business, so make sure you go check her out. And also please go follow her and connect with her on Instagram. It’s @tracy_omalley.
Tracy: If if this is something you want to know, because here’s the thing with the enneagram. There’s online assessments everywhere and even paid ones I want you to know like, like, I know you’re listening to this, you’re like, yeah, I want this secret powerful tool, right? Like you just drank the Kool Aid, congratulations. But the problem is, is we go take this free online test and they’re inaccurate 65 to 70% of the time that you can hear how much moving how many moving parts are in a human being that an online assessment isn’t going to kind of get you there. Information doesn’t equal transformation, but the wrong information will actually take you down the wrong path. So what I usually encourage people to do is do a typing session with me I will help you unpack so you A. Have the right type. You’ll know how to use your wings you’ll know what your growth and stress numbers are so that you can actually integrate this tool it’s great if you know like the fun memes and yeah, I’m a three great but what the fuck do I do with it right? For it to be a powerful tool you need to know how to integrate it and I can help you through all of that. That is where the magic of the enneagram comes out is in the integration and there really there’s a lot of information teachers out there and they’re fantastic. But I’m the integrator of the enneagram I don’t know anybody else that can do this like I can and if you really want to use this tool in your business in your life and your families and your love book a typing session at Tracy O’Malley dot com the work with me section it’s the most powerful 90 minutes you’ll probably ever have in your life quite honestly.
Regina: I mean just listen to her on this podcast and like It’s so fucking powerful. Please go check Tracy out and as always if you guys love this tag me and Tracy and let us know what you loved about the episode. I love you guys I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Regina Lawrence Esq. is a former trial attorney and law school professor turned soulful business & life strategist. She has found that so many entrepreneurs have these brilliant ideas and dreams but don’t know how to take the dream and create a system or structure to make that dream & idea profitable. That is where Regina comes in. With discipline, consistency, systems & structure, we can’t help but create profit & fulfillment from our soul-driven business ideas.
Regina’s approach to coaching marries her background in legal analysis, spirituality, mindset coaching, holistic nutrition, and neuroscience to create an experience that will assist you in getting into alignment, get clear on what you are here to do and what steps and systems to implement to make that dream a profitable reality.
You can find Regina on Instagram @reginaalawrence.
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The Witch Kit